The IT Skeptic - Comments for "The way OGC and APMG stand back without any response is completely unacceptable"

I like the airbag comment -

Visitor — Wed, 02 May 2007 06:27:43 +0000

I like the airbag comment - I was hoping my itSMF membership dues would act as that..... If I read 'voice of the customer' in these new books I'll have more to say....

this is NOT the same as a car dealer selling off the '06 models

skeptic — Tue, 01 May 2007 22:19:30 +0000

You hit the nail on the head with "They join their formal association, maintain membership and commit to ongoing learning in the form of seminars, and reading". WE HAVE NO EQUIVALENT MECHANISM IN ITSM, and only loose ones in IT in general. For example I am a full Member of my national Computer Society, which is an accredited status: I earn it and maintain it annually. But the standards by which I am measured are nothing like as rigorous as say the national Institute of Professional Engineers.

Secondly, IT is changing at a much faster rate than any other technology or science right now. if your doctor got his degree when leeching was the prefered treatment, then yes just maybe he should re-qualify.

But you are right: ongoing learning should suffice. Hence the "update" or "bridging" training proposed. I also think the previous comment may be right in that a day to update a Masters to the new V3 is a bit light.

The key issue here, which I'm sure you agree with, is that V2 training is now effectively outmoded and superceded even if V3 is not out yet. Clients need to understand that before they buy V2, and they should be getting some compensating mechanism as part fo the training package (eg. I think update training should be included in the price).

this is NOT the same as a car dealer selling off the '06 models because the '07 models are about to be released. V3 is not a matter of a few chrome strips or even a slightly larger engine. We are switching from petrol to hybrid hydrogen, the body is all fibreglass, it seats 7 instead of 4, there are 16 more airbags, and the '06 models will not meet the new safety or emission standards but the '07s do. Should the dealer tell me that before selling me an '06 model?

Isn't this argument really

Visitor — Tue, 01 May 2007 17:12:06 +0000

Isn't this argument really irrelevant? How many people who got an MBA during the 80's or 90's are going back to get a new one? Surely the industry has changed in 20 years - a professional should keep up with changes in their industry - by reading trade journals and new research and in this case the new ITIL books. Why would there be requirement for significant upgrade?

By this logic since there are such significant changes to the ITIL books that someone who has a year old certification should requalify then surely my doctor who graduated in 1982 should go back and renew her medical degree because that industry has changed sigificantly too?

Doctors and lawyers and MBA's and Accountants don't renew their degrees every year with test taking. They join their formal association, maintain membership and commit to ongoing learning in the form of seminars, and reading.

Lastly how many CIO's care when you got your training and which version it was as long as they can verify your certification? After that the only question is can you deliver the IT solution they are looking for faster, better and cheaper?

Press Release from APM Group

Visitor — Tue, 01 May 2007 16:24:05 +0000

A Press Release from APM Group has been posted on both itSMF International's website www.itsmf.org and the OGC Best Management Practice www.best-management-practice.com with updates about the new ITIL v3 exams

David - self study all 5

Visitor — Tue, 01 May 2007 00:46:17 +0000

David - self study all 5 books - that will set you back $600USD plus a higher exam fee... so a self made bridge might cost upwards of $750! What if I have just paid $1300 to your company for gaining a V2 credential? Why are you still touting practitioner - clustered no less - clustered around what?

Have you seen the scope of V3 - anyone who understands the SLIGHTEST about running a service provider organization and a service lifecycle will know its a huge difference and more than 20 questions can bridge - ludicrous!

Personally I think they decided to just tough it out

skeptic — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 23:18:52 +0000

Personally I think they knew and decided to just tough it out. "To make an omelette you gotta break a few eggs"

the training fiasco comes from the same minds that create ITIL

kingmail53 — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:02:14 +0000

The level of thoughtfulness and thoroughness given to training and certification reflects the mindset and capability of the underlying "product" - ITIL v.3.

Extremely bureaucratic, little attention to realities, etc.

Did they honestly expect the training companies to just shut down for six months to a year while they mucked about slowly making up their minds?

More bureaucratic buffoonery from the clodpated ITIL Brits.

What does upset me are two things

Concerned Practitioner — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:00:48 +0000

You and many others are upset by the transition. V3 is upon us and the pre-launch book sales appear to be excellent and the community interest higher than expected.

Now the APM Group MUST step up and communicate and stop the training organisations from selling V2 training or AT LEAST provide a path to V3.

What does upset me are two things

skeptic — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 21:42:25 +0000

ITIL needs to change and grow. So too do the certifications. I don't have a problem with that. What does upset me are two things:
1) the mismanagement of the transition. OGC screwed this when they chose now to outsource to APMG, just at the time when stability and continuity were required. or conversely they screwed it by mis-estimating the time to get V3 out so it ran late and clashed with the outsourcing. Either way communication and governance over certification have not been poor, they have been totally absent.
2) the response of the training industry, which has been to charge ahead gang-busters, selling V2 training for all they are worth without - in many cases - a word to the chumps about the uncertainty over what they were selling. They have put their quarterly quotas ahead of the interests of the clients they serve, a not uncommon response to a governance vacuum: see 1 above.

Don't just read this. Contact itSMF and ask them WTF they are doing about it. email OGC and tell them you are not happy. Be heard!

Training Requirements

Pete — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:58:10 +0000

But many firms won't want to spend money on completely re-training their employees again - particularly if they have only just trained a large number of people - and in that case a large number of people will be left with worthless certifications. They might, however, be willing to invest in bridging training (assuming that it is reasonably priced)

Training requirements

Visitor — Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:47:28 +0000

Rather than a make up exam why dont we throw away all V2 certifications and start again? It is only the industry that is stopping this which would be a cleaner approach don't you think? Seriously the educational requirements for V3 will be clean, V2 to V3 some sort of exam is required to ensure a grasp of the new material.